25 October 2009

More Anglican questions. . .*

1).  Any guesses about the title of the apostolic constitution?

Sure.  How about Tiberis Nare? (Now we wait for all the picky Latinists to correct my grammar. . .it's inevitable.)

2).  Will Anglican parishes be able to bring property along with them?

I hope so!  They don't allow ugly vestments in the Anglican Church.  Of course, the Episcopal Church has lately taken to wearing some howlers.  Seriously, in the U.S. it would be decided parish by parish, diocese by diocese.  In the U.K., you have the whole state religion problem.  My fear is that traditionalist Anglicans will resist the urge to Come Home to Rome for no other reason than their churches are actually look like churches instead of urology clinics.

3).  What will we call Father's wife?

Ummmm. . ."ma'am"?  Most anything but "Mother."

4).  What are the main differences between the English translation of the Roman Rite and the rite the Anglican Use parish will use?

The Anglican Use Rite doesn't condescend to the people by assuming that they are too stupid to know what words like "ineffable" mean.  The language is actually real English and not committee-speak designed to desacralize the liturgy with fortune cookie inanities. 

5).  Has there been any response from the Episcopal Church leaders?

Yes, the Presiding Bishopress donned her oven-mitt miter and invoked her goddess, Hecate, to pox the Holy Father.  It didn't work; in fact, it backfired.  Now she's all itchier and whinier than ever.

* No, these are not real questions.  I'm making them up.  The answers are real though.


  1. Re: No. 2 --

    It would be nice if they could "bring their property with them," but, at least in the USA, the Episcopal Organization has fought tooth and nail to seize the assets -- real estate and such -- of dioceses and parishes that want to walk the Way of the Lord and don't want to take the dark path of TEO's Anti-Gospel of Buggery.

  2. Re no.3: Episcopalians usually address the pastor's wife (or husband) by his or her first name. First names are so pervasive in TEC that I've sometimes gone for months without knowing that "Sally" was married to "Father Al".

  3. Annie1:57 PM

    "The language is actually real English and not committee-speak designed to desacralize the liturgy with fortune cookie inanities."

    Just thinking of this week's prayers, I just don't see how "strengthen our faith to accept your covenant/ and give us the love to carry out your command" is 'inane.' What it is is balanced, parallel, and piercingly clear. Not all of us need to use archaic or alliterative language all the time to feel like we are saying something.

    The Anglican Rite certainly has its virtues, but it comes out of a certain time and context. The Catholic Church, being universal, should be able to express its unchanging truths in contemporary speech. There is nothing about the English of the sixteenth or eighteenth centuries that makes it more "reverent" or "holy." The point is to express the truths well, which the Novus Ordo prayers already do ...

  4. Annie, Contemporary Speech should not be at the level of a 5th grader. Some truths are smothered because they might be perceived as too gruesome for modern sensibilities.

    And Fr Phillip, I called my former Anglican Bishop (now a priest) wife Mrs. ******.

  5. In RCIA, the biggest holdup to conversion is typically not doctrine, though that certainly plays a part. The thing that slows the process down and occasionally leads to a person dropping out is marriage and annulments. What's going to happen when a parish of 500 people show up at the Vatican's door with 300 annulments that need to be processed?

    The good bishops and priests that come over may find themselves with the same situation a hundred years ago where the pews were full but no one went to communion.

  6. Annie, you are certainly correct in some cases...but not all of the Missal was translated by the same cmte. For example, the opening prayers and closing prayers were translated by different cmtes. The opening prayers, especially the alternative ones, are actually not too bad. Almost without exception the closing prayers are inane and border on semi-Pelagianism.

  7. My question: why is everyone making such a big deal over the fact that those crossing the Tiber will get to keep their own rite, married priests, etc. Looking to the East we've got 22 cases of non-Latin rites united under the Pope with their own canonical structures, liturgies, married priests, etc. It's not like this is without precedent in the Church.

  8. What did the Presiding Bishopress say? I've been looking all over and haven't seen any comments...

  9. To JSullivan:

    You are correct. Unfortunately, I don't think a lot of people are aware of the Eastern Churches. They make up a very small proportion of Catholics in the US, so they probably get overlooked.

    But I think they are a great gift to the Church. There are two Byzantine Catholic parishes in town and a Maronite Rite Parish on the other side of town and I try to go a few times a year.

  10. Annie K.10:07 PM

    Fr. Philip,

    Interesting about the different committees - I didn't know that! Now that you mention it, I do see the opening and closing prayers are very different.

  11. There is a terrific resource for anyone interested in the Latin translations of the prayers used at Mass: Oremus.

    As I use prayers drawn from the liturgy as closings for my newspaper column, and (since it's not liturgy) I often use these, or the British translation (which I generally find more sonorous than the US).

  12. Anonymous2:03 AM

    Even if you disagree with people I think it is only proper breeding to be polite. There's even a movement — I believe it began at Harvard — that posits that the way forward is "pluralistic." That doesn't mean that you abandon your own tenets. It means that you approach others with the kind of treatment you would appreciate and respect.

    "Yes, the Presiding Bishopress donned her oven-mitt miter and invoked her goddess, Hecate, to pox the Holy Father. It didn't work; in fact, it backfired. Now she's all itchier and whinier than ever."

    This is not worthy of a professor, a priest, or a simple engagement with adults. Please rethink your rhetoric and be a gentleman.

    I think that would be a finer example for your students, your readers, your family and the corpus of the Church who love.

    Mary Bouret

  13. Mary, thank you for point out my bad breeding.

    Does good breeding also include having a sense of humor?

  14. Anonymous1:59 PM

    Don't when it's so relentlessly denigrating.

    No, it does NOT.

    Humility, as you may recall, used to be a virtue.

    This breezy spewing is Pride run amok.


  15. Mary,

    Humility is still a virtue. . .what that has to do with this is beyond me.

    OK, you don't care for my humor. That's your prerogative. But aren't you doing to me exactly what you are accusing me of doing to Schori?

    You're accusing me of the sin of pride...the father of all sin, btw. Who are you to do that?

  16. Anonymous6:54 PM

    Okay, let's try this on for size:

    The Pope is a raccoon-eyed former SSer who minces around in Prada shoes. He waves his arms about and smiles his Vampire-esque smile while invoking all the inglorious bits of tradition sticky with political intrigue and hideous misdeeds.


  17. Anonymous6:57 PM

    I am a sincere person who sees you run over people's ideas with less thought or care than a truck driver.

    And who are YOU to denounce me?

    Again it's YOUR pride. In fact, this blog is a forum for your pathologies. That's clear to anyone. Bounce back, Friar. You always do. That's the easy route.


  18. Mary,

    Thank you for your comments.

    Fr. Philip, OP

  19. Anthony, pretty good...but not really funny.

  20. Anonymous11:38 PM

    It's not funny because it's true.