tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post6476194920648849619..comments2024-02-26T09:30:54.111-06:00Comments on Domine, da mihi hanc aquam!: Coffee Bowl Browsing (Catholic Edition)Fr. Philip Powell, OPhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14970857401221305221noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-7047492179893710832009-10-28T16:22:33.207-05:002009-10-28T16:22:33.207-05:00"OOOKay....first, none of your questions ......."OOOKay....first, none of your questions ...." Reverend and Dear Father: All of my points and conclusions are layed out in: LC Control No.: 2005029797<br />LCCN Permalink: http://lccn.loc.gov/2005029797<br />Type of Material: Book (Print, Microform, Electronic, etc.)<br />Personal Name: Hoge, Dean R., 1937-2008.<br />Main Title: International priests in America : challenges and opportunities / Dean R. Hoge and Aniedi Okure.<br />Published/Created: Collegeville, Minn. : Liturgical Press, c2006.<br />Related Names: Okure, Aniedi.<br />Description: xii, 174 p. : ill. ; 23 cm.<br />ISBN: 0814618308 (pbk. : alk. paper)<br /> 9780814618301 (pbk. : alk. paper)<br />Contents: International priests in American history -- The new international priests after 1985 -- The global brain drain and distribution of priests -- The arguments for bringing in international priests -- The arguments against bringing in international priests -- Motivations for coming to America -- Voices of the international priests -- Issues of selection, training, and placement -- Orientation programs for international priests -- Conclusions and recommendations.<br />Notes: Includes bibliographical references (p. 168-170) and index.<br />Subjects: Catholic Church --United States --Clergy --History --20th century.<br /> Immigrants --United States --History --20th century.<br />LC Classification: BX1407.C6 H62 2006<br />Dewey Class No.: 262/.14273 22...///<br />I hope you are not one of those "Polly Ana" priests who believe that whatever a bishop does (no matter how morally, criminally or rationally wrong) is "right" such as in the sex abuse scandal where the bishops took the easy route and looked the other way (like Pontius Pilate) while they knew their clergy were philandering with teenage males? So, in the "vocations crisis," the bishops of the USA look the "other way" toward the Third World to exploit it. What the American (and worldwide) Catholic Church needs is a counter-reformation of 1960s-style Catholicism (actualloy anti-Catholicism or pseudo-Catholicism) in terms of doctrine, discipline and liturgy. My simple observation was that USA bishops should fulfill their pastoral obligation to provide sufficient clergy by looking from within rather than "stealing" from without from the poor and people of color. Here in the Archdiocese of Oklahoma City, since the 1960s, we have gone from 1% Third World priests to 33% Third World priests who are all assigned to poor, rural parishes. Since the 1960s and Vatican II, the Archdiocese of Oklahoma City has averaged one ordination every 5 years as compared to around 5 per year in pre-Vatican II days. Regarding who pays for the seminary in the USA, in religious orders, since the postulant/novice has taken a vow of poverty, the religious order must pay for everything. With in a diocese, the seminarian takes out loans from the secular (federal and state) government or through private lenders (banks) to pay for college seminary. At the graduate school of theology level and as per canon law, during the second of three years there, the diocese and bishop are obligated to support the seminarian once he enters “candidacy” (diaconate year when he actually becomes a “cleric” according Canon Law before the priesthood ordination year where he is “incardinated” formally and permanently becomes a part of the diocesan body of clergy). This is one thing that distinguishes Catholic clergy from Protestant and other clergy. In Catholic theology, the call to ministry is made by the community via the bishop who assumes the obligation to support the seminarian at least by the candidacy year of graduate theology. In the Protestant faiths, the call to ministry is a private matter between the individual and who he may interpret as the Holy Spirit without any call from the community until after completing the seminary’s course of studies and being called to the pulpit by a particular community. Thank you. John D. Horton, Lawton, Oklahoma USA johndhorton@yahoo.comAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-76118925060568707772009-10-12T09:24:01.155-05:002009-10-12T09:24:01.155-05:00OOOKay....first, none of your questions are addres...OOOKay....first, none of your questions are addressed to the sentence of mine you quoted. I am talking about African vocations for African religious orders. Second, you assume racist motivations but provide no evidence. That's called bearing false witness. Same goes for the hysterical accusations of slave trading and theft. Evidence, please? Third, most American seminarians pay for their seminary education. The diocese may help with loans after ordination...so, your "facts" are wrong. Wanna try again?Fr. Philip Powell, OPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14970857401221305221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-11479671827104245162009-10-12T08:15:18.508-05:002009-10-12T08:15:18.508-05:00"One of the big problems for men's religi..."One of the big problems for men's religious communities in Africa is making sure vocation candidates are called to priesthood and religious and not just the prestige and power that the office brings." Isn't it considered exploitive of the people of Africa, India and the Philippines for white American bishops to steal their clergy? Didn't the people of Africa, India and the Philippines pay for these priests to study in the seminary to serve them? Why do white racist American bishops think it is okay to steal the clergy (just like the American slave trade from 1500 to 1861) from countries populated by the poor and people of color? In fact, white racist American bishops think they are doing the expatriate priest a favor by hiring him even though he will be given the least desirable assignments that native borne white priests don’t want to touch. The condescension by the American bishops to these priests of the Third World is unbelievable. I have never understood the hypocrisy of white American bishops in stealing from the poor and people of color by stealing the priests that these people from the Third World paid to serve them. By stealing priests from the Third World, white racist American bishops don't have to recruit or pay for any seminarians here in the USA. That explains why most seminaries in the USA are empty. American bishops are too cheap to send an American to the seminary at a cost of around US$30,000 per year. American diocese and religious orders receive plenty of applications to serve but it is cheaper to import Third World priests rather than pay the cost of American seminarians. johndhorton@yahoo.com, Lawton, Oklahoma USAAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-56019173012139670822009-10-09T13:29:54.977-05:002009-10-09T13:29:54.977-05:00Speaking of Dante and the decline in literacy and ...Speaking of Dante and the decline in literacy and schooling, has everyone here heard about the Dante's Inferno videogame?<br /><br />http://www.dantesinferno.com/home.action<br /><br />So wrong. Wo very, very wrong.Bearhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01201581440686945990noreply@blogger.com