tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post4864079124501099701..comments2024-02-26T09:30:54.111-06:00Comments on Domine, da mihi hanc aquam!: Fr. Philip's comments on Cherie Blair's Angelicum lectureFr. Philip Powell, OPhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14970857401221305221noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-31319345328082392312008-12-23T09:28:00.000-06:002008-12-23T09:28:00.000-06:00Thank you Father. I wondered if my jaundiced view...Thank you Father. I wondered if my jaundiced view of Blair was prejudicing my opinion of her talk, but "lightweight" is definitely how I saw it too. Thank you and I wish you a happy Christmas.Cathyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12740969565728510756noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-19444558060091837362008-12-22T12:47:00.000-06:002008-12-22T12:47:00.000-06:00Cathy,Sorry for the delay! I keep forgetting to a...Cathy,<BR/><BR/>Sorry for the delay! I keep forgetting to answer your question...<BR/><BR/>It's difficult for me to say b/c this is not my academic area. From the text itself I can't see anything all that intellectually stimulating. Compared to the Matlary talk, the Blair talk is lightweight. I'm not sure what she contributed actually. But again, maybe there's something there I'm missing.Fr. Philip Powell, OPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14970857401221305221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-47960287993730170772008-12-21T18:05:00.000-06:002008-12-21T18:05:00.000-06:00Two points which may be of interest:In her speech,...Two points which may be of interest:<BR/>In her speech, Cherie mentions that in the UK we now have many more women MP's, thanks to decisions taken by political parties including the Labour party which her husband led.The rise in the number of women MP's in the Labour party was facilitated by Emily's List- an organisation that provided sponsorship to women candidates, but only if they were pro abortion.<BR/>Secondly,In the UK, the word 'conception' has a medico/legal definition meaning the implantation of an embryo in the womb of it's mother.The R.C. Church teaches that 'conception' occurs at the moment the human egg is fertilised by the human sperm.It's not clear which of these definitions is being used by Cherie.Katehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08692837527315745231noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-81355795566365038212008-12-19T12:02:00.000-06:002008-12-19T12:02:00.000-06:00This comment has been removed by the author.aspiring...https://www.blogger.com/profile/10825316824097996382noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-48681462756023682262008-12-19T11:36:00.001-06:002008-12-19T11:36:00.001-06:00This comment has been removed by the author.aspiring...https://www.blogger.com/profile/10825316824097996382noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-91648894231921471732008-12-19T06:40:00.000-06:002008-12-19T06:40:00.000-06:00Father, I'm not sure if you noted my question in m...Father, I'm not sure if you noted my question in my previous comment. Leaving aside (if one can) the controversy about Cherie Blair's views on abortion and contraception, did her speech really amount to much? Did her presence provide anything more than a speaker with celebrity status (and controversy)?Cathyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12740969565728510756noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-45089046861303445002008-12-19T03:48:00.000-06:002008-12-19T03:48:00.000-06:00Thank you Father, for your note. I hope we can con...Thank you Father, for your note. I hope we can continue to talk. <BR/><BR/>H. WhiteAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-70026911953073312292008-12-19T01:54:00.000-06:002008-12-19T01:54:00.000-06:00Will read this important post later..Will read this important post later..Jackie Parkes MJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07986690514568554656noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-10069508025659632312008-12-18T14:34:00.000-06:002008-12-18T14:34:00.000-06:00Just to be clear...It has come to my attention tha...Just to be clear...<BR/><BR/>It has come to my attention that my response to the first anonymous post above has been read to mean that I agree with the poster's assessment that lifesitenews' coverage of the Blair talk was dishonest. My response to this comment was meant to be a more general remark about the dangers of letting our passions for a just cause get the best of us. I do not believe that lifesitenews' coverage of the talk was dishonest. I do believe that the tone of the subjective judgments made by Ms White in the article are exaggerated. Whether the students' laughter and applause were appreciative or just polite is an interpretation of fact. <BR/><BR/>Regardless of this bump in the road, I support the work of Lifesitenews.com. There are few willing to do what they do!<BR/><BR/>Fr. Philip, OPFr. Philip Powell, OPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14970857401221305221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-4024601812597360922008-12-18T14:23:00.000-06:002008-12-18T14:23:00.000-06:00Jason,Scandal is always a possibility in most ever...Jason,<BR/><BR/>Scandal is always a possibility in most every situation...that's not to diminish the probability of scandal here. <BR/><BR/>We have to remember that each of us is obligated to avoid giving scandal AND each of us is obligated to avoid receiving scandal. In other words, you are the first one responsible for your faith formation, therefore, you are obligated to look the hard work of figuring out what's right and wrong. <BR/><BR/>It is simply a matter of logic to figure out that inviting a pro-abortion speaker to a Catholic university for an academic conference in no way signals that that university supports this person's pro-abortion stance. Giving that person a degree or naming an endowed chair after them would!Fr. Philip Powell, OPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14970857401221305221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-4077011434441007692008-12-18T14:08:00.000-06:002008-12-18T14:08:00.000-06:00Thank you Fr. Philip for the excellent dissection ...Thank you Fr. Philip for the excellent dissection of Mrs. Blair's talk.<BR/><BR/>I must, however, take exception to your final analysis:<BR/><BR/><I>No one that I know here at the Angelicum came away from this event emotionally scarred, spiritually disenchanted, weakened in the faith, or magically converted to a pro-abortion position.</I><BR/><BR/>Although this may be true - and I am disposed to believe it is true, there is still the very large problem of perception, which is what many in the blogosphere have railed against, albeit at times too harshly. <BR/><BR/>Many Catholics - without the theological formation of those at the Angelicum - will learn of Mrs. Blair's speech and assume, because of the venue, that she has the support of the Church, that her heterodox views on abortion, contraception, same sex marriage, and many other life and death issues are perhaps not that heterodox after all.<BR/><BR/>In truth, the concern is not with those who heard the speech directly, but those who might read a short and misleading article in a newspaper or see a report on TV. <BR/><BR/>Moreover, should Mrs. Blair want to pretend that her views are legitimate (and I am not attributing this intent to her - only the possibility), she could claim - and now rightly so - that she was invited to speak and did speak at a prestigious Catholic institute of higher learning.<BR/><BR/>Given her professed and public views, could her speaking at the Angelicum not be an occasion of scandal, if it allows Catholics to believe or continue to believe in anti-life lies?<BR/><BR/>Many thanks again for an excellent blog. <BR/><BR/>I shall join you in your prayers for Mrs. Blair and her husband.<BR/><BR/>Blessings!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-52166047210507232482008-12-18T11:29:00.000-06:002008-12-18T11:29:00.000-06:00Ms White, I've accused you of exactly nothing. No ...Ms White, <BR/><BR/>I've accused you of exactly nothing. No where in my post do I mention you, your site, or any other site by name. If my readers now believe that it my post applies to you and your site, they do so by your confession not my accusation.<BR/><BR/>If you take my comments to apply to you and your site, that's your problem not mine.<BR/><BR/>Fr. Philip, OPFr. Philip Powell, OPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14970857401221305221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-1180610179640974092008-12-18T10:32:00.000-06:002008-12-18T10:32:00.000-06:00Father, thank you for the time and trouble you hav...Father, thank you for the time and trouble you have taken to produce extracts from Blair's talk and for your commentary.<BR/><BR/>Given her (and her now "Catholic" husband's) apparent prominence in the Catholic world -- as indicated by her being invited to speak at the Angelicum -- it really should not be a matter of uncertainty or controversy whether she upholds Catholic teaching or a vast range of moral matters: not only contraception and abortion, but also such things as embryonic stem-cell research, so-called therapeutic cloning, same-sex marriage/civil partnerships, assisted dying, etc. Look at her and her husband's record in defending court cases and promoting legislation during the past 10 years, look at the organisations they promote -- all they have done is appalling.<BR/><BR/>Beyond this, however, I would like to ask your academic assessment of her talk. Reading the extracts you have posted (and a fuller account on another site) I am astonished by its medioctrity. Where's the academic rigour or insight? Nowhere! Why was Blair chosen to speak on "The Church and Women's Rights" when she is, in nobody's opinion, an expert on ethics, theology, philosophy or social sciences generally. It seems to me that she was asked to speak solely because of her celebrity status -- and I think the reputation of the Angelicum has been damaged in the process.Cathyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12740969565728510756noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-11078633739821784892008-12-18T09:47:00.000-06:002008-12-18T09:47:00.000-06:00first off, thank you for the expounding...I honest...first off, thank you for the expounding...I honestly never looked at ABC that way. I see your point now.<BR/><BR/>I got interrupted in writing out my comment and just posted it as was instead of losing it, my idea was that perhaps as her personal "journey" progresses she will end her membership in PP. Life experience is the best teacher and sometimes life teaches us the hard way the difference between a political stance and a dead baby. That's how I learned anyway.MightyMomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02563721884001643857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-387471317598460772008-12-18T09:32:00.000-06:002008-12-18T09:32:00.000-06:00Fr. Powell, I think we need to continue this conve...Fr. Powell, <BR/><BR/>I think we need to continue this conversation in private, but I see that you have not posted an email address. <BR/><BR/>I feel it is necessary to reiterate that having accused us of dishonest intentions and reporting, is a very serious thing. <BR/><BR/>You can send me an email at my public address<BR/><BR/>quicustodiet66@yahoo.caHilary Jane Margaret Whitehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03771332473693479830noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-83060171725271540612008-12-18T08:06:00.001-06:002008-12-18T08:06:00.001-06:00Thank you Fr.This is very interesting.Her stance o...Thank you Fr.<BR/><BR/>This is very interesting.<BR/><BR/>Her stance on contraception is very common in my opinion; yes to contraception, no to abortion. <BR/>I believe it was Robert Lock who wrote a piece in This Rock magazine that tried to prove Margaret Sanger did not like abortion/or support it;urban myth I believe is how he called it. But what is not discussed is, like you said, the natural connection between contraception and abortion.<BR/><BR/>It is hard, for me as a woman, to be submissive in that regards to not only my husband, but also the Church's teaching (which I know are fully correct). And it isn't just being "submissive" either...in my opinion, after we stopped birth control and learned NFP, I feel we are more "married" also.<BR/><BR/>Anyway, thanks for the post.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-1828866091955197222008-12-18T08:06:00.000-06:002008-12-18T08:06:00.000-06:00Fr,"Catholics have absolutely nothing to fear from...Fr,<BR/><BR/>"Catholics have absolutely nothing to fear from the truth" - but of course it was not the truth that Catholics were scared of; rather, the concern was that a Pontifical University was seen to give a platform to what are the cleverly constructed half-truths and ambiguities of Mrs Blair. Would they have been willing to do the same for Dr Goebbels? <BR/><BR/>I'm also rather baffled that not <I>all</I> the friars came away convinced of the ambiguity, e.g. Fr Williams "It was crystal clear to me at least, that you see abortion as morally repugnant and that you are in line with the teaching of the Church."<BR/><BR/>If this can be said by a learned friar, then are we to think that no student was equally deceived?<BR/><BR/>"Sometimes the best way to do that is to point to error and say, “See. That’s wrong. And here’s why…”" But of course this did not happen. This is the shame of it all.<BR/><BR/>Mrs Blair supports an abortion provider - her husband (who we can reasonably assume she formed in the Faith) supports abortion. They are pro-choice and not pro-life. They advocate and support the killing of innocents. They publicly dissent from several Church teachings, was there no one better to ask to speak about women's rights? Would a responsible mother ask this sort of person to address her children?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-27164554107508989742008-12-18T07:04:00.000-06:002008-12-18T07:04:00.000-06:00Mom,Anything that detaches sex from love and procr...Mom,<BR/><BR/>Anything that detaches sex from love and procreation necessarily destroys our proper understanding of what it means to be embodied spirits progressing toward our perfection in Christ Jesus. Artificial birth control (ABC) was supposed to "free" women from the shackles of pregnancy roulette and allow them to have sex w/o worrying about the consequences. ABC has certainly freed women from the probability of pregnancy but it has also freed the men they have sex with from the responsibility of creating loving bonds. How many times have I heard guys say that they will only date women who are on the pill? Why? Because they know that they can get the "goods" w/o worrying about the "bill." I know many women who simply stopped using the pill b/c it became a source of loneliness for them, a kind of permission to engage in meaningless sex that let the guy go without any hint of love or commitment. <BR/><BR/>Is it possible that Blair is moving toward being more pro-life? Yes, it's possible. But until she publicly repudiates her pro-abortion associations, it will be difficult for critics to believe that she moving at all. It is a bit strange to argue that a membership in Planned Parenthood is meant to support one plank of their agenda but not another. I don't need to join the National Organization for Women to support the idea that women ought to vote. My membership in NOW would indicate to any reasonable person that I support the political agenda of NOW.Fr. Philip Powell, OPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14970857401221305221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-54935255716515374642008-12-18T06:48:00.000-06:002008-12-18T06:48:00.000-06:00Ms White,I have no need to be coy. If I felt it n...Ms White,<BR/><BR/>I have no need to be coy. If I felt it necessary to "name names," I would. <BR/><BR/>I am very pleased to hear that you corrected any misinformation. <BR/><BR/>[I would note here too that Ms White interviewed me before the talk. I told her the question I would like to ask Ms Blair, but that question was more or less rendered moot by the talk.]<BR/><BR/>The anonymous commenter is responsible for his/her own comment. If he/she wishes to "name names," so be it.<BR/><BR/>I have engaged in a debate on another site regarding these issues. Yours is not the only one reporting on the conference.<BR/><BR/>Fr. PhilipFr. Philip Powell, OPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14970857401221305221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-10347959549693272772008-12-18T06:47:00.000-06:002008-12-18T06:47:00.000-06:00Fr. I have a couple questions. 1) "artificial bi...Fr. I have a couple questions. <BR/><BR/>1) "artificial birth control has de-valued women globally by undermining any legitimate progress for women’s liberation from cultural oppression and leaving women more isolated and alone than every before in human history." I don't quite get this...care to expound?<BR/><BR/>2) is it possible that Blair was at one time not exactly pro-life and is now on her personal journey of moving toward being less not exactly pro-life?MightyMomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02563721884001643857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-69598331964936103942008-12-18T06:27:00.000-06:002008-12-18T06:27:00.000-06:00Let me say here with all the clarity I can muster:...Let me say here with all the clarity I can muster:<BR/><BR/>--there were no standing ovations for Blair as has been reported.<BR/>--the applause was polite not enthusiastic.<BR/>--the laughter was “yea, we know what you mean” and not appreciative.<BR/>--most all of the friars who attended came away noting Blair’s ambiguity.<BR/>--none of us were in any way “duped” by Blair’s talk.<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>1) name names, please Father. No need to be coy. <BR/><BR/>2) the "standing ovation" comment was not written by me, it was added later by someone who did not attend the event but mis-heard me in a conversation. As soon as I saw it, I called the person and asked that it be corrected, which it was. <BR/><BR/>3) your subjective experience of the applause and the laughter was your subjective experience. I was there too and had a different one. <BR/><BR/>4) If I had been introduced to any of these friars who noted Mrs. Blair's ambiguities, I would have been overjoyed (believe me) to report this. <BR/><BR/>5) from your comments here, and judging from my own experience, I cannot agree entirely with the last. Though I am glad to read your more extensive comments. <BR/><BR/>To the other commenter (and by extension to Fr. Bruce Williams who accused us of "calumny", I would like to have, precisely, the text in which you think we have been "dishonest". LifeSite, and I personally, stand by what we have published and greatly resent the accusation that we have "become the enemy" or have any intention other than the pursuit of the truth. <BR/><BR/>Such accusations are very serious and I am surprised that a responsible person would make them in a public forum. <BR/><BR/>Futher communication on this matter might be best directed towards our editors. <BR/><BR/>Hilary White<BR/>for<BR/>LifeSiteNews.comHilary Jane Margaret Whitehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03771332473693479830noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-14284964540035951232008-12-18T05:24:00.000-06:002008-12-18T05:24:00.000-06:00Great piece Fr, thank you.Great piece Fr, thank you.Annahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05514191589337794869noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-17561497838915300252008-12-18T03:57:00.000-06:002008-12-18T03:57:00.000-06:00Anon, it is difficult to fault anyone for passiona...Anon, it is difficult to fault anyone for passionately defending life...but to the extent that any of us go out of our way to exaggerate or outright deceive in our fight against the evil of abortion, we become the enemy.Fr. Philip Powell, OPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14970857401221305221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-60816250340044514612008-12-18T03:10:00.000-06:002008-12-18T03:10:00.000-06:00Fr. Philip, thank you for correcting the shabby re...Fr. Philip, thank you for correcting the shabby reporting of Lifesitenews! While I applaud their Pro-Life efforts, they went overboard in their dishonest reporting of this story. My fear is that they would give the Pro-Life movement a bad name by a lack of integrity in their reporting only to get a "good story". We must be unified in our efforts!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com