tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post2823899225420543656..comments2024-02-26T09:30:54.111-06:00Comments on Domine, da mihi hanc aquam!: Angelicum dean responds to Blair inquiryFr. Philip Powell, OPhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14970857401221305221noreply@blogger.comBlogger40125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-25747566280940591672008-12-12T01:12:00.000-06:002008-12-12T01:12:00.000-06:00We managed to prevent a pro-choice MP coming into ...We managed to prevent a pro-choice MP coming into our girls Catholic school. The MP like Cherie Blair called herself Catholic whilst voting for abortion & animal/hybrids. We got the Catholic & local press involved & were successful in getting the invitation withdrawn. She was no role model for our children. If any of my older children were students at this Angelicum Uni they would protest Ms Cherie Blair pro-abortionist supporter of contraception & an atrocious example of protecting the weakes unborn. It is beyond belief..& we have all written to complain. If we could afford it we would have come to Rome. fortunately we have excellent Priests who support us mere parents..Jackie Parkes MJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07986690514568554656noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-73300519738943874772008-12-11T05:27:00.000-06:002008-12-11T05:27:00.000-06:00Deborah,I really can't add anything else to what I...Deborah,<BR/><BR/>I really can't add anything else to what I have already said.<BR/><BR/>You (and those who oppose Blair's invitation) are burdened with showing precisely how a talk given by this woman at a pontifical university will cause harm to the Church as a whole or her individual members. <BR/><BR/>I cannot see a causal connection.<BR/><BR/>My experience in the Episcopal Church is not comparable to this situation. In the EC at the time, the truth of basic doctrine was up for majority votes of the general convention. Nothing like that is going on here. <BR/><BR/>Fr. Philip, OPFr. Philip Powell, OPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14970857401221305221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-44716979677006222008-12-11T05:10:00.000-06:002008-12-11T05:10:00.000-06:00Dear Fr. PowellI do not mean to sound like I am at...Dear Fr. Powell<BR/><BR/>I do not mean to sound like I am attacking you with this post and you may not want to put this on your blog, which is fine with me, but I quote from your vocation story "On the national scene, the E.C. was committing suicide with one disastrous lurch away from the historic faith after another. Finally, in 1995, I had had enough and left the E.C. to become a Catholic." <BR/><BR/>Although I do not think the Church is lurching away from our central beliefs (Transubstantiation, Resurrection, Immaculate Conception etc) I think that there is a parallel in that our historic Catholic moral values are being eroded daily and not a Priest has said anything about it. <BR/><BR/>When I handed out anti-abortion leaflets after the Masses one Sunday, approx 75% of the people took one and around 25% flat-out refused. The youth were the worst offenders (16-23). This has to change and the change must come from the top down. The clergy must be informed of the importance of instilling in their parish the rights and wrongs of Catholic morality, BECAUSE WE DO NOT HEAR IT AND THIS MEANS THAT PEOPLE ARE LOOKING TO THE WORLD FOR THEIR MORAL COMPASS. You must not underestimate the power of the media with teenagers.<BR/><BR/>If this idea of being nothing but welcoming to all comers, whatever their beliefs on our central morals, continues within the Church, then within the next generation I am telling you that we will not recognise the Church anymore.<BR/><BR/>You may be a Priest who is constantly preaching Catholic morality, but I have not met one personally yet.<BR/><BR/>Mrs. Blair is a lifelong Catholic, she has had plenty of time to reassess her views AND SHE HASN'T. If I was heading up the Church, I know what I'd be doing and it wouldn't be letting her chat away inside a Pontifical University. <BR/><BR/>We need to continue the protest against her speech and I pray that our clergy will lead us in it.<BR/><BR/>Best Wishes<BR/><BR/>DeborahAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-19433467456333394762008-12-10T23:26:00.000-06:002008-12-10T23:26:00.000-06:00Anon,...and I want the "sheep" I'm responsible for...Anon,<BR/><BR/>...and I want the "sheep" I'm responsible for to able to look up when danger approaches and say, "Ah yes, I recognize that particular wolf...she was here last week saying much the same thing and here's how she is wrong..." That's not possible if we refuse to hear or see...gentle as doves, sharp as vipers. We do ourselves no favors in this hostile world when we listen only to ourselves, see only one another, eat and drink with only those who agree with us. How do we begin to turn hearts if all we do is build pretty churches, universities, monasteries, and then let no one in except those who already believe as we do. To use an analogy from Jesus: we build great Catholic hospitals and then refuse to treat the sick b/c they are sick. <BR/><BR/>Blair is no threat to the Church or any member of the Church. If there's a Catholic out there who doesn't know by now that abortion is an intrinsically morally evil act, always and everywhere Evil, then I'm simply at a loss as to understand how Blair lecturing at the Angelicum in Rome is going to make one whit of difference one way or the other to that Catholic.Fr. Philip Powell, OPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14970857401221305221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-20184188505784237842008-12-10T21:39:00.000-06:002008-12-10T21:39:00.000-06:00Fr. Philip,To entertain Ms. Blair's heterodox view...Fr. Philip,<BR/><BR/>To entertain Ms. Blair's heterodox views is the kind of activity that has caused the Church so much pain in the last few years. The eccesial office of the Church has done so much damage in the past few decades, that we cannot really afford to be complacent about anything any longer, even this; and priests should be the ones providing the leadership of strong and orthodox faith rather than letting the laity be the driving force for building up the faith in the world.<BR/><BR/>Confidence in God also requires vigilance on our part, lest thieves enter and steal the sheep.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-37902186074321506632008-12-10T13:34:00.000-06:002008-12-10T13:34:00.000-06:00As an alumna of this University, I am very disappo...As an alumna of this University, I am very disappointed that Cherie Blair has been invited to speak. It might be appropriate if there was a real debate, but just to give her a "Catholic podium," something more to put on her resume, and a claim of acceptance by the Catholic Church. No. A Pontifical University carries much more weight than an ordinary university. I think it's a real shame and disgrace.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-42567567412000857142008-12-10T13:24:00.000-06:002008-12-10T13:24:00.000-06:00Fr. Philip I admire your endurance. Will your o...Fr. Philip<BR/><BR/> I admire your endurance. Will your objectors at least admit that we should have a place in Rome precisely to debate dissenters and non Catholics alike. We can call it the Pontifical Institute for Moderated Debate...whatever. The dream world is nice but Catholics just helped greatly to elect Obama....millions of them and probably few with much thought at all despite Kmiec et al (with thought) who are probably a miniscule number of the many million of catholic votes.<BR/><BR/>We need the Church to be debating leaders of error in public. This document thing...popular after the printing press.... is not working and such documents (encyclicals etc) are read by the choir only. We are not a library.<BR/>Let's have a public way of our best people debating in public...the leaders of the opposition.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-72286661888403212312008-12-10T01:53:00.000-06:002008-12-10T01:53:00.000-06:00"As I have said many times here...no one can come ..."As I have said many times here...no one can come away from this controversy thinking that the Angelicum is pro-abortion!"<BR/><BR/>Few people whom this will affect will have even heard of the Angelicum. What they will hear is that Ms Booth is Invited to Speak by the Vatican. That is what will make it to the lapsed and non-Catholic's brains. "Even the Pope invited Cherie Blair to speak, and she's a supporter of abortion, so how can you be so against it?" <BR/><BR/>Moreover, the conference is described as dealing with the dangers of relativism for human rights. Do you think they have invited Ms Booth as a specimen? <BR/><BR/>More moreover, apropos human rights and abortion:<BR/>"The UN will begin "Human Rights Day" with a signing ceremony opening the Optional Protocol to the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women (CEDAW). The Protocol would legally bind countries to uphold all aspects of CEDAW. This includes upholding the "reproductive rights of women" (including abortion). It would also target any "culture and tradition" which stands in the way of this agenda."<BR/><BR/>Ms Booth on CEDAW:<BR/>"The Convention is the only human rights treaty which affirms the reproductive rights of women and targets culture and tradition as influential forces shaping gender roles and family relations."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-39437593075923731322008-12-09T15:34:00.000-06:002008-12-09T15:34:00.000-06:00"If I thought for a second that that was the impre..."If I thought for a second that that was the impression others were getting, I would protest strenuously."<BR/><BR/>Fr P,<BR/>Thank you for reiterating my point for me. I.e., In the century we are currently living in, Appearances=Reality. <BR/> I don't like it either but that's the way it is.Glennahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06334203937303147489noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-78040042417422194482008-12-09T11:56:00.000-06:002008-12-09T11:56:00.000-06:00While I wouldn't be able to tell what kind of acti...While I wouldn't be able to tell what kind of action, if any, is appropriate here, I do agree with one of Deborah's points: we hear <I>so very little</I> teaching.<BR/><BR/>If you have a liberal pastor and aren't very active beyond Sunday Mass, it's very much possible that you NEVER hear the Church' stand point on abortion and contraception explained properly. Chances are you've heard it watered-down, or even flat-out contradicted. Then, if you see in the media that a person you know presents herself as Catholic and pro-abortion is speaking at a pontifical university... it's easy to think she must have a point, or there wouldn't be any sense in hearing her.<BR/><BR/>I completely understand your views, Father, but we have been better informed than many people.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-89143754884280038102008-12-09T04:41:00.000-06:002008-12-09T04:41:00.000-06:00Fr. Powell, I agree with you that in a purely theo...Fr. Powell, I agree with you that in a purely theological sense Truth has nothing to fear from falsity and that the battle is already won. However, we are dealing with the secular world here, a world that will stop at nothing to destroy and marginalise the faith. I am saying that Mrs. Blair's invitation exacerbates this problem from within the Church.<BR/><BR/>I also agree that God is in charge, but we His people must stand up for His truths here on earth. God has no hands but ours to do his work.<BR/><BR/>I am not dismissing the idea of a fast either, but I still feel some more direct action from our brothers and sisters in Rome is called for too. Please consider the idea of direct action there too, just as I am considering the idea of a fast.<BR/><BR/>Best Wishes<BR/><BR/>DeborahAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-74858983119618259722008-12-09T03:44:00.000-06:002008-12-09T03:44:00.000-06:00Eric,I can assure you that as a Dominican friar I ...Eric,<BR/><BR/>I can assure you that as a Dominican friar I am perfectly free to say what I think w/o worry of losing retirement, etc. <BR/><BR/>Dominicans have always been at the forefront of the "disputed questions" of the day. This is our deep tradition going all the way back to Dominic disputing with the Cathars and Thomas disputing with the secular clergy. Truth has nothing to fear from falsity. What are you afraid of?<BR/><BR/>Blair may not be coming to the Angelicum to the challenged...that doesn't mean that she won't be. This is not about what she intends or doesn't intend.Fr. Philip Powell, OPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14970857401221305221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-21077641751586368942008-12-09T03:39:00.000-06:002008-12-09T03:39:00.000-06:00Deborah,Let her and all the minions of Hell attack...Deborah,<BR/><BR/>Let her and all the minions of Hell attack!<BR/><BR/>God is in charge...and this battle is already won...nothing Blair says here or anywhere else is going to change what God Himself has established.<BR/><BR/>Fretting over inviting this pro-abort Catholic to a Catholic university could be seen as a sign of doubt about God's providence. <BR/><BR/>Rather than fret and fume, why not begin a fast for Blair's visit, asking God to show her a magnificent sign of His Love for her and the children she has helped to abort with her support. Let's use this occasion of having an enemy ideology on our home ground to do a little attacking of our own!Fr. Philip Powell, OPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14970857401221305221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-43506801884823333642008-12-09T03:26:00.000-06:002008-12-09T03:26:00.000-06:00Jeff, her talk is entitled 'Religion as a Force in...Jeff, her talk is entitled 'Religion as a Force in Proecting Women's Human Rights', which Mrs. Blair would have include abortion on demand. She is a Catholic Human Rights Lawyer, but also pro-abortion: I don't think they mix very well.<BR/><BR/>Fr. Powell, I am telling you that Mrs. Blair's invitation is an attack from the Church from within. I am only young (23) and not particularly religious, other than weekly Mass, so I fail to see how you, a holy man, cannot see what I do so clearly. <BR/><BR/>Nowdays, unless we are taught traditional Catholic morality by our parents, we will not hear it anywhere else, so there are millions of Catholics walking around with no idea of the Church's official views on contraception etc. This situation is worsened and undermined by Mrs. Blair at every turnabout when she speaks out against the Church in the press, with no comeback from the Church hierarchy. In fact, we're now paying her to speak! <BR/><BR/>She thinks she can say anything she likes to openly disrespect the Church's moral rules in the press and there has been no backlash against her from our clergy: what is going on here? How can the people aspire to live by Catholic moral standards when we never hear about them? And when we do, all we see is someone railing against the current rules. Fr. Powell, that is madness! <BR/><BR/>Until Mrs. Blair can be brought back into the fold, our Church should go into damage limitation mode and speak out against her in the press when she flouts the rules and we should certainly not invite her to speak. <BR/><BR/>If our clergy will not back us up on this issue, we have a serious problem within the Church. <BR/><BR/>A Catholic pro-abortion advocate speaking on 'Women and Human Rights' at a Pontifical University, Lord help us! Please continue to write to the conference organisers asking them to cancel her talk. <BR/><BR/>Best Wishes<BR/><BR/>DeborahAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-30432580249894053902008-12-09T01:21:00.000-06:002008-12-09T01:21:00.000-06:00Father Phillip:Sometimes the Pope is to be followe...Father Phillip:<BR/><BR/>Sometimes the Pope is to be followed, and sometimes he is not.<BR/><BR/>For example: <BR/><BR/>1) John Paul II as a model of perseverance in the face of great physical suffering: FOLLOW EXAMPLE<BR/><BR/>2) John Paul II as a pedophile-enabler: DO NOT FOLLOW<BR/><BR/>And even here, the example is not quite clear. Pope Benedict simply received her in audience. I see no evidence that he personally organized her invitation to a conference hosted by some Pontifical academy.<BR/><BR/>The Pope cannot dispense from divine and natural law, and if he's wrong he's wrong, and should be told so publicly and to his face.<BR/><BR/>I know you priests can't do so; you'd lose your retirement benefits and be sentenced to a lifetime of ministering in a hospital or nursing home by your bishop. But we laity who face no such strictures need to charitably, but firmly, rebuke our pastors when this is called for. I would say that after 50 or so years of pedophile-enabling, liturgical abuse, heterodoxy, tolerance for dissenting bishops, priests, and theologians, etc., enough is enough.<BR/><BR/>Finally, I agree that there is a place for academic debate in an appropriate forum even at a Catholic university. But Mrs. Blair is not coming to this forum to be challenged in a public debate. That's your spin.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-75099051844706137832008-12-08T22:55:00.000-06:002008-12-08T22:55:00.000-06:00Deborah,I can easily see how inviting Blair here t...Deborah,<BR/><BR/>I can easily see how inviting Blair here to honor her with a degree or to give her an unassailable perch from which to speak would undermine the Church's credibility. The Angelicum is not an American "university in the Jesuit tradition" where pro-abort celebrities are given awards and degrees for their great humanitarian services. <BR/><BR/>I simply do not understand how allowing this woman to give a talk at an academic conference where she will be challenged by the other speaker and those in the audience, how this event is going to undermine Catholic morality. The connection is not there.Fr. Philip Powell, OPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14970857401221305221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-7173402023839014552008-12-08T17:14:00.000-06:002008-12-08T17:14:00.000-06:00I am still wondering what she was asked to talk ab...I am still wondering what she was asked to talk about. All that was mentioned before was "women's rights" and that is too nebulous to mean anything. Though how Cherie Blair is an academic on anything in this area is beyond me.Jeff Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03892529674664589034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-38311029839811396562008-12-08T15:47:00.000-06:002008-12-08T15:47:00.000-06:00I too do not believe The Angelicum is, or will bec...I too do not believe The Angelicum is, or will become, as a result of Mrs. Blair's speech, pro-abortion. I am however sure that by inviting her to speak within the Church time and time again (on ANY issues) the Church weakens its stance on a wide ranging number of issues within its own congregations.<BR/><BR/>How can we take the Church seriously and attempt to live by its (very high) moral standards if it invites Mrs. Blair, who openly flouts Catholic morality in the media, to one of its conferences? I am certainly not saying that I am not a sinner, or that I have always operated within the bounds of Catholic morality, but I am not a public figure who professes Catholicism as my faith, yet does nothing but show a high level of disrespect for it in the press.<BR/><BR/>Mrs. Blair has been interviewed and says she is 'a good Catholic girl', yet she has also given tasteless interviews about using artificial contraception and she openly supports pro-abortion organisations. This is not the kind of hypocritical 'pick and mix' Catholicism that our congregations need right now.<BR/><BR/>Finally, you do not know what is going to be in Mrs. Blair's speech, so your students will not necessarily learn how to refute her at all. <BR/><BR/>Fr. Powell, please believe me, we never hear traditional Catholic morality repeated to us (either in our schools, or in our Churches) and this is where the problem lies. Inviting Blair to this conference weakens the Church at grass-roots level and from within: it is this that I am most worried about and I think you should be protesting strenously already.<BR/><BR/>Best wishes<BR/><BR/>DeborahAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-11345090531648010082008-12-08T14:45:00.000-06:002008-12-08T14:45:00.000-06:00My defense of the Blair invitation is not based on...My defense of the Blair invitation is not based on academic freedom. That defense is used too often to abuse actual freedom. My defense is much simpler: I want students to hear her so that they can hear how to refute her. It's Show & Tell. <BR/><BR/>As I have said many times here...no one can come away from this controversy thinking that the Angelicum is pro-abortion! If I thought for a second that that was the impression others were getting, I would protest strenuously.Fr. Philip Powell, OPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14970857401221305221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-26551400613479170932008-12-08T14:22:00.000-06:002008-12-08T14:22:00.000-06:00Fr. Powell, If The Angelicum does not listen to us...Fr. Powell, <BR/><BR/>If The Angelicum does not listen to us when we are writing letters to them, then heckling Blair during her speech would at least make them think twice before inviting her to speak again, this is my wish: therefore my reason for protesting would not be to make myself look superior or feel good.<BR/><BR/>You are correct in saying that I do not know the wishes of the Holy Spirit, who may have called Mrs. Blair there to show her the error of her beliefs. However, it may be that an organised protest against Mrs. Blair could show her the depth of feeling about this issue within the Church and she could be forced to choose between the secular and spiritual in a way she has not had to before. A change of heart can come about by many means.<BR/><BR/>On the matter of academic freedom, which appears to be the current defence by The Angelicum, I cannot say anything that has not been better said by Mr. Smeaton in his blog (to be found above)<BR/><BR/>Please keep up the pressure on the conference organisers.<BR/><BR/>Best Wishes<BR/><BR/>DeborahAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-91406001212192826222008-12-08T11:14:00.000-06:002008-12-08T11:14:00.000-06:00Wait let me guess - you mean to tell me he eats AN...Wait let me guess - you mean to tell me he eats AND speaks with sinners and Publicans?! That's it I'm outta here!! ;)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-76528751277881169542008-12-08T10:46:00.000-06:002008-12-08T10:46:00.000-06:00Dear Fr Powell et al.,Please see my latest comment...Dear Fr Powell et al.,<BR/><BR/>Please see my latest comment<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://spuc-director.blogspot.com/2008/12/false-idea-of-academic-freedom-no.html/" REL="nofollow">False idea of academic freedom no defence for inviting Cherie Blair</A><BR/><BR/>Yours sincerely in defence of life,<BR/><BR/>John Smeaton<BR/>National Director<BR/><A HREF="http://www.spuc.org.uk/" REL="nofollow">Society for the Protection of Unborn Children (SPUC)</A><BR/>London, UKJohn Smeaton, SPUC directorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17816087952317602972noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-17266217705640278122008-12-08T09:21:00.000-06:002008-12-08T09:21:00.000-06:00The germ theory of orthodoxy, according to which a...The germ theory of orthodoxy, according to which any contact with a heterodox thinker must be avoided, isn't well suited to a university named in honor of St. Thomas Aquinas.Tomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14850575419673561383noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-21585268136368278642008-12-08T09:14:00.000-06:002008-12-08T09:14:00.000-06:00Well, Father,then why dont we invite all these fam...Well, Father,<BR/>then why dont we invite all these famous and infamous people supporting promoting fighting and performing or encouraging people to do abortion at our University. Unfortunately i dont think Sr. Helen was led by the Holy Spirit I think she was led by the idea of having famous people at her conference or whatever else idea. I guess if she had hoped for the conversion of mrs Blair she would have invited her to a silent retreat. <BR/>I am absolutely convinced we MUST ask Mrs Blair at the conference, whether she mentions it or not, if she thinks abortion is a part of the Women’s Rights - she must state this clearly in front of everybody and if she does she Must explain on the top of what she calls herself a Catholic.<BR/>bistraAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-63489195142135826952008-12-08T08:57:00.000-06:002008-12-08T08:57:00.000-06:00Deborah,Heckling Blair accomplishes nothing more t...Deborah,<BR/><BR/>Heckling Blair accomplishes nothing more than make you feel good. Or superior. Or self-righteous. Or whatever. Blair is flat WRONG on abortion. Everyone at the university agrees that she is wrong. There is no danger of anyone here being persuaded. There is no danger of the Pope switching sides. There is no danger of anyone in the press suddenly concluding that by inviting Blair the Catholic Church is now pro-abortion. What possible good can come from heckling this woman? Could it be possible that the Holy Spirit lead Sr Helen to invite Blair here so that He could show her something she needs to see...something to change her heart. You cannot say it is not so.Fr. Philip Powell, OPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14970857401221305221noreply@blogger.com