tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post4578312875058108622..comments2024-02-26T09:30:54.111-06:00Comments on Domine, da mihi hanc aquam!: Four Top Ten ListsFr. Philip Powell, OPhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14970857401221305221noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-66332111035977225412008-11-11T10:40:00.000-06:002008-11-11T10:40:00.000-06:001 4 8 and 9 of list 2 still make me flinch by read...1 4 8 and 9 of list 2 still make me flinch by reading them. <BR/><BR/>God save us from those who think they are higher than God. And God save us from the NAB. DR forever!James Lockehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12775302972135332609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-7693530319923811942008-11-08T14:44:00.000-06:002008-11-08T14:44:00.000-06:00Adolfo, I've never heard that one before!Honestly,...Adolfo, I've never heard that one before!<BR/><BR/>Honestly, you've done your job. Hope and pray the pastor does his. If he doesn't, there's really noting you can do except avoid the Spanish Masses...Fr. Philip Powell, OPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14970857401221305221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-20040363205676331062008-11-08T14:03:00.000-06:002008-11-08T14:03:00.000-06:00In my Parish, especially in spanish masses I don't...In my Parish, especially in spanish masses I don't know why the priest never tells the people anything, but after the gospel proclamation ( and every reading actually), everybody starts clapping! just clapping as if it had been a great performance, and the response to the gospel is not even heard, silenced in clappings! I told my priest why he didn't say anything, and he was jut like "oh yeah, they clap you know" [...] <BR/>Father, what am I supposed to tell him?Dominicanus3https://www.blogger.com/profile/18115527319247062208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-35324852460154244222008-11-08T00:06:00.000-06:002008-11-08T00:06:00.000-06:00Patrick:I wasn't going to comment at all on this t...Patrick:<BR/><BR/>I wasn't going to comment at all on this thread, but your post made me change my mind.<BR/><BR/>I don't think I understand: HOW does gender inclusive language connect with abortion?? I want to hope that this is just a faulty cultural over-generalization. However, I obscurely fear that what is at play is some sort of arch-sexism that assumes women who desire to be included in the language are somehow so emotionally immature, so eager to remove themselves from their "place," that they will murder their own infants to do so unless restrained by enlightened males?<BR/><BR/>Please reassure me that this is just a labyrinthine and farfetched pigeon-hole and not a despicably chauvinist argument in favor of literally revising the documents of the church to fall more in line with fringe views of gender.<BR/><BR/>Also, as a Latinist, there is no question about Ginkgo100's point. It's just a fact of the language. Need we outdo St. Jerome?<BR/><BR/>Robert HamiltonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-18876938237445350752008-11-07T23:39:00.000-06:002008-11-07T23:39:00.000-06:00Ben, Ginkgo...you guys are correct. If the parish...Ben, Ginkgo...you guys are correct. If the parish is using the lectionary authorized by the USCCB, the the reader (technically, not a lector unless he is installed) should read the text as written. <BR/><BR/>I can only think of one instance where I have knowingly change the text of the Mass...there's one utterly banal closing prayer sometime in the early part of O.T. that reads, "Lord, may this Eucharist be effective in our lives." Simply the dumbest prayer in the book.<BR/><BR/>Fr. Philip, OPFr. Philip Powell, OPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14970857401221305221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-375501859217292022008-11-07T21:28:00.000-06:002008-11-07T21:28:00.000-06:00I am not a Lector, but I'd tend to agree with Gink...I am not a Lector, but I'd tend to agree with Ginkgo w.r.t. the readings. "Say the black, do the red" should apply to everyone, shouldn't it?GenXBenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15298459502431357489noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-34826524524853188692008-11-07T21:20:00.000-06:002008-11-07T21:20:00.000-06:00..yes, well there are a few spots in the breviary .....yes, well there are a few spots in the breviary where the operative assumption is that all those praying it are male. I'll buy "men" being a reasonable tranlation of the Latin "homo". <BR/><BR/>I don't find "brothers" to be an acceptable general term. The troublesome spots are the intercessions, where some address the assembly as "brothers". I don't find anything problematic in saying "brothers and sisters" (or "sisters" if the assembly is entirely female).Michellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12617476463347663364noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-4409479581675725152008-11-07T17:23:00.000-06:002008-11-07T17:23:00.000-06:00I don't know that using gender inclusive language ...I don't know that using gender inclusive language in some situations is such a bad thing (Liturgy aside of course). Not all feminists want the death of the unborn.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-2887755563292569442008-11-07T16:40:00.000-06:002008-11-07T16:40:00.000-06:00Dear Fr. Philip,I already know that. :-)Jana/Funt...Dear Fr. Philip,<BR/><BR/>I already know that. :-)<BR/><BR/>Jana/FuntohaveFun<BR/><BR/>You know, blog title in homage to the Cat in the Hat who can balance on a ball with a fish and a cake and a rake because "it's fun to have fun, but you have to know how!" at least until all the things fall!<BR/><BR/>:-)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-26100605889741822492008-11-07T15:04:00.000-06:002008-11-07T15:04:00.000-06:00Patrick,I am also a lector. It's not appropriate t...Patrick,<BR/><BR/>I am also a lector. It's not appropriate to make any changes in the reading. It is not the place of the lector to try to correct the translation as they see fit! If the pronouns bother you, you should offer it up and pray for an improved translation. If it still bothers you too much to read it as presented, then you should consider withdrawing from the ministry of lector, because it has become an occasion for the sin of pride.<BR/><BR/>By the way, the Latin "homo" (plural "hominibus") is not a gender specific term. "Vir" means man. Where the Vulgate uses the term "homo," an English term that is gender-neutral is appropriate. Only where it says "vir" must it be translated as "man."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-64730011880849313542008-11-07T14:11:00.000-06:002008-11-07T14:11:00.000-06:00Thanks for the answer. I personally think it's a ...Thanks for the answer. I personally think it's a seminarian playing a prank on the WOC, and if so, it's pretty hilarious.Larry Denningerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06015803653090711740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-6857718993411396122008-11-07T11:53:00.000-06:002008-11-07T11:53:00.000-06:00Patrick, there are certainly historical links btw ...Patrick, there are certainly historical links btw the pro-abortion movement and the urge to cleanse our language of "sexism." I'll have to think a bit more on any underlying philosophical connections.Fr. Philip Powell, OPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14970857401221305221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-66997915735958094962008-11-07T11:48:00.000-06:002008-11-07T11:48:00.000-06:00Larry, this letter is a gag. If it's not a gag, t...Larry, this letter is a gag. If it's not a gag, then this "seminarian" is either not a seminarian or he's clueless. <BR/><BR/>His claim that it is the younger priests who approve of women's ordination and the older ones who disapprove is exactly backwards. <BR/><BR/>Fr. Philip, OPFr. Philip Powell, OPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14970857401221305221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-58537861325352632192008-11-07T10:10:00.000-06:002008-11-07T10:10:00.000-06:00Good lists, Fr. #11 for Liturgical Acts could be ...Good lists, Fr. #11 for Liturgical Acts could be shaking hands and greeting those around you prior to the entrance hymn. Ick ack ptouuie<BR/><BR/>On an entirely unrelated note, what's your take on this: <A HREF="http://www.womensordination.org/content/view/275/" REL="nofollow">Letter From A Young Seminarian In Rome---to the WOC</A> Since you're in Rome, it'd be interesting to know first hand if the Crones are truly still "the talk of the town" after the Bishop's synod. I personally think the letter is a hoax or a seminarian's clever idea of a funny prank. Thanks!Larry Denningerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06015803653090711740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-6903644856820371482008-11-07T09:05:00.000-06:002008-11-07T09:05:00.000-06:00Regarding the 'pronoun shuffle':I'm a lector. I'm...Regarding the 'pronoun shuffle':<BR/><BR/>I'm a lector. I'm able to fight back against the pronoun shuffle.<BR/><BR/>For example: in the American lectionary, most of St. Paul's readings are introduced with the phrase, "Brothers and sisters," which doesn't appear in the Pauline text. I drop the phrase entirely and go right into St. Paul's words.<BR/><BR/>Also, if I can catch it on the fly, I will restore "man," "men," etc. where the NAB has inserted castrated terms. I don't always make the catch, but I do what I can.<BR/><BR/>Larger philosophical point: <I><B>To accept 'gender inclusive' language is to accept the philosophical underpinnings of babykilling</B></I>. For we Catholics, our answer must be, "Not now, not ever."<BR/><BR/>Perhaps, Friar Philosopher, you could chime in on this last point?Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11921487731379997580noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-58265010132528738242008-11-07T08:44:00.000-06:002008-11-07T08:44:00.000-06:00Fr. Philip, I hadn't even realized you'd slipped i...Fr. Philip, I hadn't even realized you'd slipped in a "blessed" instead of a "happy"! :)<BR/><BR/>I do GREATLY prefer the new translation which we'll hear when the Holy Spirit takes our bishops out behind the woodshed. ;)Jeffrey Pinyanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08758581112217835988noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-88381643365377822642008-11-07T07:34:00.000-06:002008-11-07T07:34:00.000-06:00Fun, the complexity in moral deliberation comes in...Fun, the complexity in moral deliberation comes in when you to make subjective judgments about whether or not this or that is morally good or bad. Generally, though the phrase "complex moral issue" is used as a cover by people who don't want you to deliberate morally on any issue. They want you to do what you want to do and they are giving you cover for doing exactly that by patting you on the head and telling you, "Poor thing, it's really very complex...just do what feels right." Eight times out of ten they know the right thing to do but somehow feel no obligation to share their findings.<BR/><BR/>Fr. Philip, OPFr. Philip Powell, OPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14970857401221305221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-77265609329615082182008-11-07T07:29:00.000-06:002008-11-07T07:29:00.000-06:00But I like a few of those, properly understood. T...But I like a few of those, properly understood. There ARE complex moral issues that do have pretty intricate problems to be addressed. None of that changes the moral status of a given act, but it's still useful in sin prevention (ie. "if I don't have alcohol, I don't get myself into positions where I could cheat on my wife.") Preferential option for the poor can be understood properly, too. <BR/><BR/>Always sad when people take legitimate theological ideas and turn them into buzzwords for their own purposes.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-18092131578441148802008-11-07T07:19:00.000-06:002008-11-07T07:19:00.000-06:00Japhy, sorry...I messed up the line...I was trying...Japhy, sorry...I messed up the line...I was trying to quote the usual improvised line...instead I mixed in the correct version too!<BR/><BR/>I will fix it.Fr. Philip Powell, OPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14970857401221305221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-45145257016628100312008-11-07T06:48:00.000-06:002008-11-07T06:48:00.000-06:00Fr. Philip, regarding item #9 on list #2, mucking ...Fr. Philip, regarding item #9 on list #2, mucking with those words both universalizes and localizes that prayer! From my recent blog post on the <I>Ecce Agnus Dei</I>:<BR/><BR/>In the present translation, the priest <B>does not</B> say "Happy are <B>we</B> who are called to <B>this </B>supper." There is great significance in saying "those" (instead of "we") and "his" (instead of "this"). First, saying "we" is over-<I>inclusive</I>: it presumes that everyone present at Mass is going to receive (which might not be the case). Second, saying "we" and "this" is over-<I>exclusive</I>: it emphasizes the <B>local</B> congregation and celebration, neglecting the <B>universal</B> character of Holy Communion, whereby <B>all</B> those who receive Holy Communion are partaking of the <B>same</B> "marriage supper of the Lamb". It's not just <I>this</I> supper, it's <I>his</I> supper, the Lamb's supper. Instead of being focused on the local present moment, our attention should be drawn to the heavenly eternal moment.Jeffrey Pinyanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08758581112217835988noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-68119208119173063252008-11-07T00:58:00.000-06:002008-11-07T00:58:00.000-06:00In my top 10 liturgical acts that should be punish...In my top 10 liturgical acts that should be punished: "Look not on our sins, but on the faith of the people gathered here today."<BR/><BR/>I hear that several times a week.Elizabeth Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03247588949025978208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-64662556724983651992008-11-07T00:49:00.000-06:002008-11-07T00:49:00.000-06:00now then, this was downright illuminating.Item num...now then, this was downright illuminating.<BR/><BR/>Item number 6 in list number 2 is particularly on my mind this week.....but then there's Item number 7 in list number 3.....mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmMightyMomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02563721884001643857noreply@blogger.com