tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post2013839876226340471..comments2024-02-26T09:30:54.111-06:00Comments on Domine, da mihi hanc aquam!: Confused about the Immaculate ConceptionFr. Philip Powell, OPhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14970857401221305221noreply@blogger.comBlogger30125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-56644570160178717362012-12-11T07:41:54.462-06:002012-12-11T07:41:54.462-06:00That's a good analogy. . .only it seems to me ...That's a good analogy. . .only it seems to me that we would first have to sin in order to be addicted to it. So, the question remains: why did Adam and Eve sin in the first place? Part of the answer has to do with our natural desire to be in union with God. The serpent played on this Good and offered godhood w/o God. That's the root of all sin.Fr. Philip Powell, OPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14970857401221305221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-25314707435648610712012-12-11T07:38:39.786-06:002012-12-11T07:38:39.786-06:00I should add here that I am using "myth"...I should add here that I am using "myth" in its proper sense, i.e., "an explanatory story" and not its contemporary sense, i.e., "a falsehood."Fr. Philip Powell, OPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14970857401221305221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-54005810915960421552012-12-11T07:37:25.335-06:002012-12-11T07:37:25.335-06:00Yes, exactly. Now, how to explain sin's introd...Yes, exactly. Now, how to explain sin's introduction into both our biological and cultural DNA? At the extreme, we could say that "the Fall" is a mythical way of explaining our evolution into sentient animals; that is, when Adam and Eve eat the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, they become conscious of and capable of making moral choices. This evolutionary step in moral knowledge and the step into self-awareness happen simultaneously. As an evolutionary explanation, this is no one demonstrable scientifically than the Genesis myth.Fr. Philip Powell, OPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14970857401221305221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-84665675876015188692012-12-11T07:31:25.796-06:002012-12-11T07:31:25.796-06:00This is why I focused on the "full of grace&q...This is why I focused on the "full of grace" greeting to the BVM. If one is "full of grace," then there is no room for sin, original or otherwise.Fr. Philip Powell, OPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14970857401221305221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-21697962863574339192012-12-11T07:30:10.564-06:002012-12-11T07:30:10.564-06:00You're right about this. There's the prob...You're right about this. There's the problem too of the general decline in critical thinking skills in the US. I've found that many folks simply don't know how to make needful distinctions.Fr. Philip Powell, OPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14970857401221305221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-81750938019397422592012-12-11T07:29:00.506-06:002012-12-11T07:29:00.506-06:00Yikes! Don't give The Liturgists any ideas.Yikes! Don't give The Liturgists any ideas.Fr. Philip Powell, OPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14970857401221305221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-38901885083408309712012-12-10T13:03:04.384-06:002012-12-10T13:03:04.384-06:00And people think "consubstantial" is dif...And people think "consubstantial" is difficult to understand! LOL.<br /><br />The same ICEL mindset that turned the Magnificat into "Mary's Song" and Vespers into "Evening Prayer" seems to have left Immaculate Conception alone. I guess "Stainless Start" was too challenging.OreamnosAmericanushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15602268350813211243noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-24278835617508325262012-12-10T10:13:31.938-06:002012-12-10T10:13:31.938-06:00I agree with this reason. Also the immaculate con...I agree with this reason. Also the immaculate conception OF Mary, can also be confused with the immaculate conception IN Mary. Also since Mary is listed as Immaculate and Virgin, people tend to think that they are two ways of saying the same thing. So when they hear Immaculate Conception paired with the reading they think, she became pregnant without sex, i.e. Immaculately. I heard bill oreilly say that catholics call the Virgin Birth the Immaculate Conception. Also this is what I thought for a long time before becoming a priest.Fr. Damien Merrinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17821062504905546925noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-9947000098924645582012-12-10T10:03:45.684-06:002012-12-10T10:03:45.684-06:00I use the example of a child born addicted to drug...I use the example of a child born addicted to drugs. Unfair, unjust? Yes and also a reality. Instead of being born addicted to drugs we are born addicted to sin.Fr. Damien Merrinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17821062504905546925noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-43616833021855623632012-12-09T18:42:45.952-06:002012-12-09T18:42:45.952-06:00I think it highly likely that those who don't ...I think it highly likely that those who don't know about the Immaculate Conception dont know many of the fundamental teachings of the Church. In many churches, one never hears the teachings from the pulpit, so even a person doing the minimum regarding practise and going to Mass on Sundays and days of obligation would not receive his due education. Forget the rubbish taught for "religion" in most Catholic schools. Lyndanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-23939003623448750602012-12-09T16:23:48.311-06:002012-12-09T16:23:48.311-06:00Perhaps the Gospel reading on the feast day, which...Perhaps the Gospel reading on the feast day, which I'm assuming is the same every year, confuses some people since it is about the Annunciation and not the Immaculate Conception.<br /><br />LukeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-21717964085717034912012-12-09T16:11:16.629-06:002012-12-09T16:11:16.629-06:00Original Sin is even more problematic in an evolut...Original Sin is even more problematic in an evolutionary context. Your own Aidan Nichols OP: <br /><br />"To a secular mind, the difficulty with this doctrine (of original sin) will be not only the concept of vicariousness but also the question of historicity. The story of the Fall could be read as a symbolic account of human rebelliousness against God, of how all our cultural developments (as for the Genesis writer, clothing, metal-working, city-building) are spoilt by an element of vengefulness and pride. Yet sin must have entered human life at some historical moment, whether identifiable or not. For unless evil marred the creation of humanity contingently (i.e., historically), it could only have done so essentially (i.e., by God's own creative act), which is unthinkable." ModerateRealistnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-13378723858840822942012-12-09T12:21:03.677-06:002012-12-09T12:21:03.677-06:00Hmmm...can't remember thinking about that. In ...Hmmm...can't remember thinking about that. In my limited understanding, OS being inherent to the human condition, we share the same human nature, regardless of generation, don't we...?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-83875718285276502022012-12-09T12:14:54.875-06:002012-12-09T12:14:54.875-06:00The problem with OS is explaining how it is "...The problem with OS is explaining how it is "transmitted" to the next generation. How do we explain subsequent generations suffering b/c of something their parents did? It seems to go against basic justice.Fr. Philip Powell, OPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14970857401221305221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-20717963526846299032012-12-09T05:39:56.652-06:002012-12-09T05:39:56.652-06:00If I remember correctly, whe I used to listen regu...If I remember correctly, whe I used to listen regularly to Catholic Answers Live the folks there were frequently addressing that issue with an analogy of Christ's merits saving all of us from the bottom of te cliff while saving Our Lady <i>from</i> falling into it...don't know whether it fits what you've mentioned above.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-4845827346393383862012-12-09T05:37:59.902-06:002012-12-09T05:37:59.902-06:00Most of those responding after Mass were in the 50...Most of those responding after Mass were in the 50's-60's.Fr. Philip Powell, OPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14970857401221305221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-52018979407989297672012-12-09T05:34:59.451-06:002012-12-09T05:34:59.451-06:00Funny you saying that, Fr...the concept of Origina...Funny you saying that, Fr...the concept of Original Sin has been very commonsensical to me since I've read somebody (can't quite remember the context) describe it as the idea that Man somehow deviated from his original purpose and therefore his existence in the Earth isn't what it could/should be, and that there's basically no one in the world that disagrees with that. It seemed insightful to me. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-41847650780510241602012-12-09T05:03:14.831-06:002012-12-09T05:03:14.831-06:00At 81 I'm one of those older religious parishi...At 81 I'm one of those older religious parishioners at St Dominic's and was surprised to learn from your reply to Matt G, that this was the troubling age group. I'm puzzled as someone born & raised in N.O., who was always taught fully of the IC. Before I read your reply I assumed the problem was with those who were instructed in CCD classes, which is a matter of serious concern.-- Many thanks for your homilies and your blog which foster increase faith and courage.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-53963432819553706472012-12-08T21:08:53.419-06:002012-12-08T21:08:53.419-06:00False ecumenism is probably one of the major sins ...False ecumenism is probably one of the major sins of the 20th c. Agreed.Fr. Philip Powell, OPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14970857401221305221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-53149573379742210922012-12-08T21:07:39.071-06:002012-12-08T21:07:39.071-06:00TA would be appalled that moderns were using his 1...TA would be appalled that moderns were using his 13th c. arguments against a papal pronouncement. He was a faithful son of the Church and never claimed to be infallible himself. Fr. Philip Powell, OPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14970857401221305221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-26413814230307907602012-12-08T21:06:16.174-06:002012-12-08T21:06:16.174-06:00Good point. However, I have to say that many of th...Good point. However, I have to say that many of the comments came from older religious women who regularly attend Mass at St Dominic's. And I agree that many--most--Catholics are not being taught the faith.Fr. Philip Powell, OPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14970857401221305221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-19093741891370601502012-12-08T21:03:48.753-06:002012-12-08T21:03:48.753-06:00As I understand it. . .which is your first cue for...As I understand it. . .which is your first cue for doubt. . .TA had trouble with the notion that Mary could be preserve from something she was never subject to in the first place. IOW, how can one be redeemed if one had never been a sinful? I think this the modern definition avoids this problem by asserting that her human nature was made clean from the moment of conception.Fr. Philip Powell, OPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14970857401221305221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-74878227692704942702012-12-08T20:58:40.593-06:002012-12-08T20:58:40.593-06:00It certainly does, and I hadn't thought of tha...It certainly does, and I hadn't thought of that. OS is an exceedingly difficult concept to explain and defend. Believe me, I've tried. Most explanations of OS involve some sort of intuitively unjust notion of inherited fault. . .an idea very hard to defend. Fr. Philip Powell, OPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14970857401221305221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-12748248389869473312012-12-08T20:56:33.519-06:002012-12-08T20:56:33.519-06:00Good answer! I like it.Good answer! I like it.Fr. Philip Powell, OPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14970857401221305221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18842286.post-72242850653047112282012-12-08T13:15:28.836-06:002012-12-08T13:15:28.836-06:00I think especially in America is that we are too i...I think especially in America is that we are too influenced by Protestantism and by that extension Sola Scriptura and as it is not explicit in the Bible, we tend to ignore it especially as the mood of the past 50 years has been accommodation and removing the "stumbling blocks" between us and them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com